May 87 Mousehole
| Volume Number: | | 3
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| Issue Number: | | 5
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| Column Tag: | | Mousehole Report
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Mousehole Report 
By Rusty Hodge, Mousehole BBS
Fax communication
From: Mysteray #432
Some months ago there was some stuff here about making the Mac into a FAX machine. For those interested (in what a slotted machine can do), the current issue of EDN has a special article on FAX cards designed for the ibm-pc [intentional lc]. They seem to be around $1000. They offer special compression techniques and error correction. There is even a product that can allow simultaneous editing by parties on both ends, with the resultant graphical output file identical on both ends. Very interesting reading for anyone interested in communications & graphics.
Might we see similar products for the Mac II within the next 9-12 months? I would noy bet against it, for sure. Now WE can begin to flex our muscles and move into the slotted world.
Finder bug
From: Mysteray #432
I just found a strange bug in Finder 5.3 that may provoke thought...
1. I grouped three files from my Ram Disk (Ram Start 1.21). These were small MacDraw & MacWrite docs.
2. I dragged these to a floppy disk icon, my target.
3. A dialog box came up, approx: "not enuf memory to do copy; ungroup and drag one-by-one"
4. I did just that, but 2 (of 3) reportedly were already copied, but I clicked to replace anyway, feeling suspicious. The 3rd reportedly couldn't be copied because it was "locked or in use" (but in fact wasn't). (Too bad I didn't have a zap DA in the system this time.) Also: the finder reported that the copies were of the right size.
5. I ejected my target disk (by dragging the disk icon into trash). Then I re-inserted it. IT CAME BACK WITHOUT THOSE NEW FILES. And the one still in Ram Disk now was no longer "locked or in use".
6. I then dragged 'em individually, with no problems.
I'm now going to upgrade to the new Bloating-Trashcan Finder in hopes that strange things like this have been fixed. (And maybe other strange bombs too.) [This sounds very much like a RAM disk problem and not a Finder problem. -Ed]
What: Forth
From: Tim Hewitt #150
I am a Forth programmer, converting to C for my new job, but a Forth programmer at heart. On the Mac, there is really only one Forth, and that is MacForth Plus. It is a very mature, almost bug free product with tremendous developer support and a terrific track record. The folks at PAS have done a very good job with Mach 2, but it has yet to produce a completed serious Mac application, and it is still a product in infancy.
A partial list of products developed in MacForth includes, Back to Basic Accounting, Chipwitts, MacGDS (professional CAD), Easy 3D, Pro-3D, Total Music, StudioMac, Digibase, PosteHaste, Mac Lion, MARS 2, Pro-Mac. All of these are off the top of my head.
The support mechanism CSI has set up on Compuserve is superb, and the development environment MacForth Plus presents to the programmer rivals anything available for any micro. I have been working in MacForth for almost three years, and really feel like I am stepping back into the stone age programming in LightSpeed C. I abandoned Mach 2 after not being able to successfully compile and run a major application, in an very immature environment.
What: Upgrade Paths
From: Zenomorph #353
I've been inside both new Macintoshs. There is no way in heaven you can expect an upgrade to Macintosh SE from Apple. The SE is a total rewrite of everything in the plus, new Logic board, new case, new spaceframe, new power supply, and new front cover.
The one suggestion I can make is to pay off your Macintosh and use it or sell it cheap (why cheap? beacuse everybody knows computers don't retain one 1/5 of their value after two years!) and wait until next march to buy a new Macintosh. The prices will have dropped and they will have lots of new software justifing a purchase. I'm sorry if you didn't want to hear this but look at the facts.
What: SE Surprise
From: Scott Winders #465
If you have a Macintosh SE, hit your interupt switch and type in the following: G 41D89A. Sit back and watch the show! And you wanted to know what they did with that extra ROM space...
What: FullWrite Pro Beta...
From: Jon Magill #382
FullWrite Professional just gave a demo last Friday and said that they would be sending out Beta's to test sites by the end of the month. They also indicated that the product would be shipping in 60 to 90 days. It is one of the hottest s/w products I have seen. My notes from the demo include things that impressed me like: side bars, change bars, dynamic references, linkable renumbering documents, auto indexes and tables of contents, find window has its own menus, strikeouts, of course flow around irregular objects, own drawing environment, mixed size multi columns on one page, tiled windows with linked updates between them, sophisticated searches and replacements, lots of other goodies and all very simple to use and Mac-like (unlike that other word processor from Microsoft) no they didn't replace the mouse with keys on this package. Price will still be $295.
What:Disk Interleaving on new Mac's
From: Zenomorph #353
Well gang I went out yesterday and sat down in front of a Mac Plus, SE, II and I tried formatting a disk on each of the new machines. I then placed the disk into the Plus's disk drive. I booted the Plus and opened Word 1.05 Remember I formatted this 800k disk on a Mac II with a 1 to 1 sector interleaf. The boot difference was no more than 10 percent. Word 1.05 opened up in 24 seconds without the cache on.
I reformatted the same disk on the Macintosh Plus and then placed it into the Mac II after moving Word 1.05 to the disk. Word 1.05 opened up in 14 seconds. My conclusion is that the Interleaf variation between machines is not a problem.
What: TurboMax
From: Max #406
Just received a "pre-release" version of Mac Memory's TurboMax upgrade for the Mac Plus and 512e. Includes a separate board, with a 68000, 2-megs of RAM, a 16 Mhz clock, and a 68881 co-processor. Features a separate power supply, a fan, a high-speed SCSI port, will accept a 40-meg internal hard drive, has an output for a (future) big screen card, and will expand to 4-megs.
The speed increase is AMAZING... and no software incompatibility (MS Works, MS Excel, MS Word 3.0, Jazz, SuperPaint, RedRyder 10.0, MacDraft 1.2a). Thus far, it's running fine under System 4.0/Finder 5.4. I will soon run bench-tests against a stock Mac Plus, and a Levco Prodigy-4 enhanced Mac. This might be a really good product: Retail price (without 68881 and internal hard drive) is only $1300+install.
Anybody else out there running a similar pre-release test for Mac Memory? I'd be interested in any feedback (E-mail or whatever) anyone has on this piece.
What: Mc Face
From: Blacksmith #540
Dan Kampmeier (the developer of Mc Face) is probably the most helpful and accessable (developer) I have had a chance to speak to.
About Mc Face. This is really a nice piece of code. Basically it provides a very credable Macintosh interface without forcing the Fortran programmer to learn any of the toolbox calls. No fun if you are a dedicated Mac Hacker but great if you just want to get your Fortran stuff working quickly on the Mac. If you have your heart set on getting into the toolbox he will sell you the source code for a reasonable price. If you are writing Fortran on the Mac I think this is a steal!
What: System 4.0
From: Rick Boarman #377
I've been using System 4.0 since mid Feb with no problems whatsoever. I have it on a Mac+ with a ProApp 40S and on a MacXL. Word 3.0 runs fine along with every other application I've tried. I would suggest that anyone who likes the features of the new System/Finder combination to go ahead and use it. Just be sure to have some backups around.
From: Kerry #102
We have been running Finder 5.4 and System 4.0 for awhile now. If something is going to bomb it will bomb on our system. We have 4 Macs and an IBM running TOPS, Intermail, SuperLaserSpool, usually a Network game each day, every Mac has a different hardware configuration (i.e. RAM, hard drives, etc.). The new system works fine for us except for running NetTrek from a hard drive. We have to boot up a floppy (we use the new system) and run NetTrek from a disk.
From: Jim Reekes #583
On a Mac+ it loads mucho data into the system heap. If you're gonna run a program that hogs memory, then you're in trouble. Boot up w/4.0 and run Omnis III+, a spectacular bomb. The universal installer scripts are not ready yet. If anyone is running an AppleTalk net, then every Mac must run the same system version. If you're using Switcher, or similar util, don't use 4.0 on your Mac+. Generally, if you have a SE, or are using 4.0, your a beta tester. [Maybe but I've used Omnis III+ with 4.0 without any problems. I think your being a little pesimistic. -Ed]
From: Mark Chally #561
I've been using 4.0 on my Jasmine for a couple weeks now, and on an HD20 for a couple days before that...it works without a hitch. (my copy was the Jan 15 version). I think it's great.
On interleaving...my Jasmine is set up at 2-to-1...so is a friends. The earlier software he had was for 3-to-1...neither one seems to have any problems...oh, by the way, the Jasmine is REAL fast--hard to beleive they're using a Seagate 225 (ick) in there--I get 106, 107, and 36 on DiskTimer II..that's about 250kb/sec read/write and 45ms seek over 1mb!
MPW Pascal & Macintalk
From: Jaff #314
MPW Pascal seems to have omitted interface and objects for the talking Mac. Anyone have a solution? I built an interface file, tried to convert my TML Speech.rel, but no success in linking. Help!
From: Cpettus #484
APDA sells a new(er) version of the MacInTalk Development package which includes MPW bindings for the driver. It ISN'T perfect (with MPW 1.0, it required a bit of editing before it would compile correctly), but it works when twiddled with...
MPW Help
From: Power Hopeful #323
I need some expert advice... I can't seem to get the exact syntax of an IMPORT statement in MPW assembler.
I want to import either a specific template definition, or a module containing many RECORD templates. I'd be most appreciative of anyone's time in helping!
From: Jim Reekes #583
PH, try this in the main file:
TheRecord RECORD EXPORT
field1 DS
field2 DS
ENDR
and then this in the seperate file:
TheRecord RECORD IMPORT
field1 DS
field2 DS
ENDR
But, don't use the '0' after the record statement unless you really know what it means. Templates cannot be IMPORTed, you should make a file of template definitions and then include it at assembly time. If you use the '0', then that record is really a list of offsets based on the location counter. No data structures will be generated. If you use the EXPORT option, then data will be generated. So data structures can be EXPORTED to other files, but templates cannot.
_Datainit?
From: Power Hopeful #323
Is anyone aware of a bug in _Datainit? In calling it I'm getting an illegal error. If _datainit is not the culprit, can anyone possibly suggest why the code directly following it seems nowhere to be found? After calling it, it's necessary to IMPORT some other stuff, and these import statements seem to be preventing the asm instructions from appearing anywhere. I know I'm not explaining the problem in detail here, but if anyone has a general solution to this general description, it would be VERY helpful. If not, I guess I'll burden you later with the gorry and boring details.
From: Jim Reekes #583
When: 8:12a Mon, 16-Mar-87
Create a segment strickly for initialization purposes. First line of this seg should be "JSR _DataInit". Then init all the rest of the managers and so forth. RTS back to your MAIN code, and then "_UnLoadSeg" on that initialization code. Make sure that you include the RunTime.o during the link process.
From: Power Hopeful #323
Most of my problems have to do with the placement of the data within the module(s). Actually, I've had no luck importing declared data to the main mod and have thus simply compressed it all into one MAIN. Is there a simple rule governing 'data' statements (i.e., those statements declared as DATA) within the module? It's when I've so labelled my data that the problems arise with both the structure of the final object code and with _datainit. Further, this data declaration seems to be required at the beginning of the program.
Lately I've just been arranging the program like those in MDS with the data statements unlabelled at the end and have had no real problem. Maybe in a nutshell you could tell me just what the advantages of the IMPORT facility are....besides the problems I've had trying to use it, I really can't see -- since each and every locally referred-to variable and constant must be explicitly declared IMPORTED -- what the point of defining data elsewhere is.
From: Jim Reekes #583
There's no simple rule to follow for declaring data structures, because there are many complex data sets and many methods of programming with MPW. But basically, you only need to define data once in a file then import it into other files. If you're going to import data into more than one procedure, then make it global to the entire file. Your problem is probably that the MPW Linker is looking for P-code, and you're writing 68000.
Remember that the Mac ROMs use Pascal data structures, so you might as well get used to RECORDs. If your program is complex and uses many separate source files, then you're gonna need to import some data and code. Importing will save you from unnecessary coding. Records will help to document your program. [complete docs are a must in assembler]. Records will let you use symbol names instead of offsets.
You mentioned that you are trying to write all of your program in one main source like in MDS. Do you mean 'one main code segment' or 'one source file'. Big difference. MPW will let you place your source code into different code segments. Unless your writing more than 32k of code, you won't need more than a 'MAIN' code segment. But, if you trying to write all that code in one file, you're working too hard. Seperate files allows for shorter Asm/Link times and ease of matenance. Also, try to write 'object oriented' code and you'll need less imported data. The reason for importing data structures is to allow seperate files to use the same data. Importing will also better document your code by re-defining the data you'll be using.
I put all of my initialization code into a 'INIT' segment and unload it right before my event loop. [No need to keep it around.] All the rest will be place into the 'MAIN' segment. I still don't think that _DataInit is the root of your troubles. It only requires about 4 lines of code and can otherwise be ignored. The reason for importing data structures is to allow seperate files to use the same data stored in RAM during run-time.
Monkey see...
From: Bill Evans #508
In :aincludes:sysequ.a which comes with MPW, there's a cute little line at about line 130 or line 140:
MonkeyLives EQU $100 ; monkey lives if >= 0 [ word]
Anybody have any idea what it's for? I hate to monkey with it.
[MonkeyLives is a trap that goes back to the early days of the Macintosh. It was described by Andy Hertzfeld at a Mac seminar once. If MonkeyLives is not zero then random events are posted to the system that can be used to implement via a hook, a process that only runs when the monkey event is generated. Apparently it was implemented once by Andy or someone back in the Steve Jobs era in such a way that at random intervals, when a menu was pulled down, instead of a menu list, a PICT of a person was displayed instead. When the menu was pulled down again, the list returned! This led to a story that Jobs claimed there was a monkey in his Mac but when he showed anyone, it wasn't there. MacTutor would love to have a demonstration of monkey events! -Ed]
From: The Atom #397
Remember apple's monkey DA? That's what the global MonkeyLives is for. When you run the da, it moves the pointer around the screen and generates random events, in order to test out your application. You can put in checks for monkey lives(the da is running if>0), so that you disable functions like quitting, writing something to disk, or other potentially dangerous functions while debugging. That way when you run the Monkey DA, your program won't try to save out files or something if you have the correct checks in.
Where's the beef?
From: Jim Reekes #583
After playing with an SE all day, I really didn't see any faster speed. Although things like consectutive block reads were good, I see the same overall speeds on the Mac+. An Excel macro actually ran faster on the Plus. The gray color next to beige is enough to make you puke. The horz slots on the front, and vert ones around the side make it look real computer-like. I can foresee problems with the internal 20.
First of all, it's a Rodime. [blech] I think it's too fragile to transport. It is lucky enough to have a 50 pin cable to the mother board. I suggest people with drives having 50 pins to mount a centronic 50 out the rear of the SE, and connect internally. [about $6 worth of parts] Incidently, the new Sony power supply is beefier but it looked like all the video components were the same as the old one. [which is what usually failed] If you remove the logic board, the speaker wire will make you curse trying to replace it. I like the new keyboards. When do we get the 1.6Mb floppies? What happens if parameter RAM is completely scrambled? You can't pull the battery out, so we need a new util to zero it out.
I'll wait for a Mac II, in 1988. Yup, I'll wait till next year.
New ROMs for Mac Plus
From: Mac Spy #477
Apple will NOT sell the new ROMs that are being shipped in the new Mac Plus. Oh Well.. [These ROMS reportedly have the SCSI fixes in them, some of which may be not be available from System File patches. The only solution appears to be a friendly dealer who will swap for you. -Ed]
Mac II to Sony Multi-sync
From: Chief Wizard #123
Lots of people have complained about the high cost of Apple's new color monitor for the Mac II. Here are the pinout for a Mac II to Sony Multi-Scan mointor (it looks HOT!)
Mac II (DB-15) Sony (DB-9)
1 1 Gnd
2 3 Red
5 4 Green w/Sync
9 5 Blue
Use a shielded cable, and tie the sheild to pins 4 and 2 (Mac & Sony, respectively.) Unfortunately, the NEC won't work without a modification to the video card. The video card uses a 67 Hz vertical frequency, and the NEC only goes up to 62 Hz. The Sony can handle 50 - 100 Hz.
On the good side, though, there are people all over the place selling the Sony Multi-Scan (Part # CPD-1302) for less than $600.
Disk First Aid
From: Dr. Dog #295
I had the same problem with Disk First Aide as Jim Reekes. Everytime it ran the "Death" icon appeared over the various options in the iconic menu. I knew there was a problem too, because I would occasionally write to a bad sector and couldn't open that file. The interim solution was to keep the disk only full to 12 of 20 megs, so that that sector wouldn't be used. I finally located the bad sector by paging through the upper sectors of the disk with FEDIT. I found a sector (#38942) on the HD 20 that FEDIT couldn't open to read--that bad sector! By choosing write extended from the FEDIT menu, I could read the bad sector (and write it). It turned out that the tags were bad. The file number tag was F0783C1E (-260555746)! Naturally, that was absurd and the reason why Disk Express was confused--it couldn't reconcile the disk directory's contents with the file number attached to this sector. I just wiped out the tags, all data in the sector, and reformatted the disk. It now works perfectly, Disk Express runs fine, and that particular sector can have data written to it and read from it with no problem. So, I suspect Disk First Aide does not deal with the tags in the repair mode. It certaintly didn't correct the outrageous file number on my bad sector. Instead, it just blindly compares the directory with known sector tags and says "its bad."
From: James B. Du Waldt #322
It's rather ironic that the tags caused the problem; according to a recent Mac Tech Note, tag use is being discontinued because it wasn't found to be effective in assisting in rebuilding trashed files. Hmmm... reminds me of a story afew years back... Eagle Computers (remember them ?) came out with a business PC that didn't have parity checking on the memory, a la Immense BM. The reason why was because Eagle engineers did some research and decided that the increased number of RAMs required LOWERED reliability, not raised it... Eagle had a good reputation for quality (but their docs were supposed to be TERRIBLE), and when was the last time you had a parity error on your Mac...?
SCSI Drives and SE
From: Sam #261
If you are using a SCSI drive with an SE or Mac II that was not shipped with your new Apple and are having strange things happen like boot failure or disappearing volumes (from the Finder, that is) try using the latest SCSI Setup program from Apple on your drive. Select the UPDATE option (it doesn't write over any user data) to install the new SCSI driver. That should fix the above problems if there is nothing physically wrong with the drive.
From: Scott Winders #465
Sam, why in the world would you try to put Apple's SCSI driver on someone elses hard disk?? It would only work if they have the same drive and controller and the same ROM on that controller. Do what you suggest to a DataFrame and nothing would happen anyway.
From: Sam #261
Ok, let me be a bit more specific... if you are using a Seagate ST255N as found in Apple drives, Jasmine, and a host of others or the Rodime equivalent of the Seagate, and are having boot problems try the Apple program first.
From: The Anarchist #103
I am using a dataframe XP 20 on my SE. It works fine, but it was formatted and inited with the 2.3 util. I am assuming that the 2.2 formatter did have problems. [The new formatter is necessary to re-format the boot blocks with a new SCSI driver. Then it works fine with the SE and II. -Ed]
From: Power Hopeful #323
I was attempting to use a dataframe XP 40 on my mac plus with a 68020...init 2.1 was absolutely useless, and I was told 2.2 would remedy address problems, but that turned out not to be precisely the case. I had a lot of problems with that processor and finally removed it.
By the way, when I first put all my software on the hard disk, it registered about 20 meg with 20 meg available. I patiently waited through Disk Express, and was richly rewarded by the information that I then had about 7 meg on the HD, with 33 meg available!
Chilton Book
From: Macowaco #222
Of all companies to do it....Chilton has just published a maintainance manual and fixit giude for the Mac. I was about to buy it but I don't expect to need it very much longer since it doesnt cover the II.
Memory Upgrades
From: Arnold Woodworth #296
I want to upgrade my 512K Mac to 2 Meg. I know some of you folks have experience with upgrades. Can you tell me about them? Who's good? Who's bad? I'm considering Micrographic Images or Levco.
From: Rick Boarman #377
Arnold, Stay away from MicroGraphic Images. We have had a 100% failure rate with their MegaScreen. Every single unit we have sold has had to be worked on. The last repair was over $300.00. Levco and Dove have very clean memory upgrades.
I would suggest getting a Mac+ upgrade and then going to 2 or 4 meg. The 512 motherboard just wasn't designed for larger memory configurations.
EasyDrives
From: SpUd PoTatO #449
The new EasyDrives now have Fujitsu Drives in them, replacing the Seagate 225N. As a result, access time is quicker, the drive it quieter, and their prices have dropped $200! 30MB SCSI drive for only $649! Not bad, eh?
lightspeed c
From: Dirck #188
I wanted to say that I received lightspeed c v2.01 in the mail unsolicited and no charge for the upgrade. That shows real class (after paying for at least 2 TML upgrades). Anyway, they fixed one of the bugs in fseek, but not the other one, even though the code looks like it's been rewritten. (I use lightspeed for developing code for other machines). There's a coupla missing brackets in their fseek. Anyway, I ran into another bug last night. Try this out:
asm {
move SR,d0
move d0,SR
move d0,CCR
move CCR,d0
}
wild, huh? Time to do some selective hand assembly.
MacApp and TML
From: Worker #526
I think the segment difference is in the use (by MPW) of segment aliases, which could be overcome without a new linker, but with some hassle. The changes I made to MDS weren't necessary, as MDS is not needed - the MacApp assembler sources are low-level stuff that exists in TML in another form. An obstacle that cannot be overcome (to my satisfaction) is that MacApp requires the availability of function and procedure parameters, which TML lacks (why do Pascal compiler makers always leave this one out ? It's as if they were only interested in what my data structures professor called the 'FORTRAN subset of Pascal'!). I think I will call him.
MacApp DA Newsletter
From: Lsr #309
I just got the second issue of the MacApp Developers Association newsletter. It contains a summary of the MacApp DA meeting that was held in SF during MacWorld, some added info about the group, an example UNIT that handles the serial port, and interviews with Tom Leonard (TML) and Dave Intersimone (Borland). The Borland interview was pretty interesting; MacApp support is definitely on their list of enhancements, but probably not for release 2. (There is also an interesting story of Phillippe Kahn and MacApp.)
Illustrator files in Word3.0
From: Greg Kearney #364
Ok someone was asking how Word 3.0 reads Illustrator files, well here is a simple (I hope ) explanation:
First the file must be in EPSF format. This format saves both a bitmap representation of the file , what you would see in the Preview mode and a PostScript description that will be sent to the printer (think of it like a downloading font only its a picture.)
Next when you place an Illustrator file into word, you see the bitmap on the screen but when you print, the driver goes out to the file and downloads the PostScript to the printer when it encounters that object in the PS stack so that what you get is better than what you see.
As an after thought Cricket Draw does a similer thing with its PICT files only it puts the PostScript into the comment field of the file so the printing program does not need to go out to the disk to get it.
I got a copy of EPress that prints!!! and is it something! you should see whole newspaper pages coming out of the Linotype 500 from a MAC!
SE ROMS in a Plus?
From: Jim Reekes #583
The ROMs in the Mac SE will NOT work in a Plus. The new SE ROMs have a different pin out than the Plus ROMs. If you plug them into the Plus mother board or a EPROM reader, you will mostly likely burn up the chips. the power line is not on the same pins anymore.
